![]() Of course, there are other possibilities, for example that you might instead be competent at solving nearly all problems. The usual outcome is that you are very good at solving a couple of problems and competent at solving a few more. Tier three: Again, we gotta sacrifice something compared to tier two, here taking us to around the level of a vanilla Magus. You gotta lose something compared to the tier one casters, but what you lose doesn't have to be in some really specific proportions. But, as will continue to be the case as these tiers go on, there aren't necessarily these two simple categories for this tier. ![]() Generally speaking, this means relaxing one of the two tier one assumptions, either getting us to very good at solving nearly all problems, or incredibly good at solving most problems. Tier two: We're just a step below tier one here, in the land of classes around the sorcerer level of power. If you're not keeping up with that core trio of tier one casters, then you probably don't belong here. This is the realm of clerics, druids, and wizards, classes that open up with strong combat spells backed up by utility, and then get massively stronger from there. Tier one: Incredibly good at solving nearly all problems. It's not a perfect measure, both because some niches have a lot of overlap in the kinds of problems they can solve and because, again, the niches aren't necessarily all inclusive, but they can act as a good tool for class evaluation. A niche filled tends to imply the capacity to solve a type of problem, whether it's a status condition in the case of healing, or an enemy that just has too many hit points in the case of melee combat. Another way to view the idea of problem solving is through the lens of the niche ranking system. A problem could theoretically fall outside of that space, but things inside that space are definitely problems. For the purposes of this tier system, the problem space can be said to be inclusive of combat, social interaction, and exploration, with the heaviest emphasis placed on combat. The original tier system's tier descriptions are still good guidelines here, but they shouldn't be assumed to be the end all and be all for how classes get ranked.Ĭonsistent throughout these tiers is the notion of problems and the solving thereof. Thus, I will be uncharacteristically word light here. When an increase in versatility would seem to represent a decrease in tier, because tier two is supposed to be low versatility, it's obvious that we've become mired in something that'd be pointless to anyone trying to glean information from the tier system. Considering the massive range of challenges a character is liable to be presented with across the levels, how much and how often does that character's class contribute to the defeat of those challenges? This value should be considered as a rough averaging across all levels, the center of the level range somewhat more than really low and really high level characters, and across all optimization levels (considering DM restrictiveness as a plausible downward acting factor on how optimized a character is), prioritizing moderate optimization somewhat more than low or high.Ī big issue with the original tier system is that, if anything, it was too specific, generating inflexible definitions for allowance into a tier which did not cover the broad spectrum of ways a class can operate. And problem solving capacity is what's being measured here. The simple answer here is that tier one is the best, the home of things on the approximate problem solving scale of wizards, and tier six is the worst, land of commoners. Rynjin, Endless Rain, Darvin, Avatar Vecna – 1 ![]() Rynjin, Kurald Galain, Thunder 999, Endless Rain, Darvin, Avatar Vecna – 1.0 Rynjin, Kurald Galain, Thunder 999, Endless Rain, Darvin, Avatar Vecna, Maat Mons, Gnaeus – 1 I imagine these are all clear-cut cases for Tier 1, which leaves little for discussion (hence putting all three of these together) but let's do this anyway.ġ) Are there any specific archetypes, feats and/or spells that are overpowered for these classes, and that potential DMs should look out for specifically?Ģ) What are the worst archetypes for these classes? They're all Core classes with 9th-level prepared casting and expansive spell lists. This thread is for Cleric, Druid, and Wizard. But a formal collection of threads, where everyone discusses and debates how classes should be tiered, is something I think would be useful for Pathfinder, in the same way the tier list for 3.5 is. There has been an informal attempt to do a tier list for Pathfinder, which I've also used in reference for this thread (link) (*Deal*-with-Pathfinder-Tiers). I'm interested in starting work on a tier list for Pathfinder, in the same way that we have a tier list for 3.5 (link for reference) (!). ![]()
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